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Message |
    
Cindy
Junior Member
Username: Never_2_l8
Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 05:58 pm: | |
I have been playing violin for a year now and would like to make better use of my practice time and shore up the basics. Can anyone recommend a method book to use? I have a teacher but they are not as structured as I think I need.
Thanks! |
Don Crandall
Senior Member
Username: Mr_c
Post Number: 116
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 06:15 pm: | |
Have you played the Wolfhart etudes? They are good and enjoyable. |
TK
Senior Member
Username: Lifeisgood
Post Number: 270
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 09:19 pm: | |
I also like Sevcik. You can find these books at Sheetmusic.com or you may get lucky and find used copies at Amazon.com
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Don Crandall
Senior Member
Username: Mr_c
Post Number: 117
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 06:50 am: | |
Hissss, Sevcik,the musical equivalent of castor oil. Yes they are good for you but done too long and you will end up in Bedlam.
Personally I think Bach was the best pedagogue ever. If you play a daily dose of Bach everything else is childs' play. |
Matt Pelikan
Senior Member
Username: Matt
Post Number: 254
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 08:00 am: | |
I've been working, with some success, from the Shradieck "School of Violin Technique" and "Scale Studies." But I think pretty much all of the etude and scale-study books can be helpful -- the key thing is focusing your attention closely as you work with them, and playing at a tempo that makes it possible to play them correctly.
I also agree with Don: the Bach solo string music is wonderful stuff for learning, since it's written with a profound understanding of the instruments. If the violin sonatas and partitas are too hard, get a violin edition of the 'cello suites, which are a bit more manageable.
Cindy, also important (IMHO) is including sight-reading in your practice time. To some extent, an etude collection like Wolfhart fills this role. But keeping a steady flow of new music coming across your music stand is a great way to improve -- don't settle for playing the same ol' stuff over and over again. |
TK
Senior Member
Username: Lifeisgood
Post Number: 271
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 09:06 am: | |
Okay you guys, you talked me into trying some Bach. I'm afraid it will be beyond me but we'll see. 
Update: Oh my, Sonata I looks to have four-note chords...**throws head back in hysterical laughter**...I can barely do a double stop! |
Man
Senior Member
Username: Manwong
Post Number: 1074
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 09:39 am: | |
LOL, yeah, I wouldn't bother w/ *those* Bach pieces as a beginner. Even the easier ones that Matt mentioned can have some 3 and 4-note chords -- and in fact, one of them (the Bach Bouree from Suite #3) ends Suzuki Book 3 and has a couple spots w/ 3-note chords. 
Anyway, TK, if you're adventurous (and upto it), you might indeed want to give the Bach Cello Suites (arranged for violin or viola) a try instead. They work/sound better on viola than violin though. I hope to learn them on viola some time down the line -- they're part of the reason why I wanted to learn the viola. 
_Man_
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".
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Cindy
Junior Member
Username: Never_2_l8
Post Number: 12
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 03:06 pm: | |
Thanks everyone for the great advice. Matt you are so right about having a steady diet of new music. I asked my teacher to help me learn Bach's Air on a G String (I love that piece!) and that has been a challenge to improve my bowing skills!!
Don et al, thanks for all of the ideas. Off to buy music!!!
Cindy
Also
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TK
Senior Member
Username: Lifeisgood
Post Number: 274
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 03:30 pm: | |
I looked ahead to the Bouree at the end of book 3. How do you play those three note chords? I can't hit all three strings even if I go right to the edge of the fingerboard and pushing down so I can catch all three just results in the ugliest of grinding sounds. |
Don Crandall
Senior Member
Username: Mr_c
Post Number: 118
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 05:10 pm: | |
Oh heavens I never suggested that someone at the beginning of playing try tackling one of the solo sonatas or partitas. Those are on an advanced level and often virtuosic. I should have been more specific. There is lots of Bach that is well within the reach of a beginner. For example "Jesu Joy of Mans' Desiring" is a lovely piece that is easy yet has a good technical challenge to it. Every day I play some Bach for my own good.
On playing double stops in the Baroque style is a subject much has been written on. I suggest you google it. In an instrument with a Baroque set up the bridge is flatter, and the Baroque bow has a greater arch allowing more strings to be simultaneously sounded. I read one work on the subject and it suggested that the multiple stops be fingered and the chord be played quickly.
Personally I like to strike a nice balance with sounding all the tones and sustaining at least two of the upper pitches to give a ringing effect. I don't like a hard biting attack unless of course you are playing those big chunky chords in Beethoven where it is absolutely the right things to do.
This is an interesting discussion. |
Don Crandall
Senior Member
Username: Mr_c
Post Number: 119
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 05:19 pm: | |
P.S. Man
I printed up some of the Bach cello suites transcribed from a download site I subscribe to.
I also am learning the viola and am having fun playing those too. They are 10000 times easier than the Partitas and Sonatas for solo violin. Those things are tough but worth the effort.
It is a strange thing I can read the clef on its own, but applying it to the instrument is trickier than I thought. I will overcome it however. |
TK
Senior Member
Username: Lifeisgood
Post Number: 275
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 09:16 pm: | |
No harm done, Don. I always like a good challenge...but I'm old enough to look, before I leap. 
'Jesu Joy of Mans Desiring' is one of my favorite pieces. And thankfully there are beginner versions.
Also...your explanation of playing chords with a Baroque violin and bow is both interesting and relieving; it can be done well with the right equipment. |
Man
Senior Member
Username: Manwong
Post Number: 1076
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 11:22 pm: | |
Hehheh...
Don,
I figured you didn't really mean the famous Bach unaccompanied sonatas and partitas, but yeah, I don't really expect to ever be able to tackle those. Those are best left for the "real" pros. 
BTW, when I bought my first 16" Juzek viola off eBay over a year ago (while scoping about for a violin), I also inherited a pretty good stash of sheet music from the nice young lady who sold it to me. The stash included a copy of the Bach Suites for viola among other things. Haven't learned enough to really try to tackle them yet though I did sneak a few attempts on the Bouree in Suite #3 (from the Suzuki Book 3 version). Can't wait to be able to actually play them in the hopefully not-too-distant future.
TK,
To play those 3-note chords in the Bach Bouree (using modern instruments and setup), you basically sound off the lowest note and quickly slur into the 2 higher notes as a double-stop w/ one bow stroke. If done right, the lowest note should continue to ring while you continue on for the double-stop. And because of the way it's written (in that piece anyway), the double-stop part itself doesn't last very long either.
You can find an example of it in the following YouTube video (though her electric doesn't seem to ring much, if at all, on the low note):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foa6f4O4Zsw
For the 4-note chords, I think they typically play the lower 2 notes as a double-stop slurring quickly into the 2 higher notes, but I could be wrong there -- I'm sure one of the more advanced violists or cellists here will chime in on that.
Interestingly, since the bowing direction (wrt the order of strings from low to high) is different for cello vs violin/viola, I guess the bow stroke would necessarily be different as can be seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok24iv3Fcxc&feature=related
And for one w/ loads of 3-note and 4-note chords, try the Sarabande from Suite #6 -- I think most violists don't actually play this Suite though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxvRKyWsmr8&feature=related
Anyway, if you have any interest in the Bach Cello Suites at all, do yourself a favor and buy a CD set of it played by the likes of Rostropovich, Casals, et al. -- I often play the version by Rostropovich on EMI label for my toddler (and also for myself on iPod). On viola, there's also a worthy, old mono set played by Lillian Fuchs though she seems to take lots more liberties w/ them, which probably isn't the best way to be introduced to them. Of course, before you buy anything, there does seem to be quite a few videos on YouTube you might want to check out first.
_Man_
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".
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TK
Senior Member
Username: Lifeisgood
Post Number: 276
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 07:35 am: | |
Thanks Man! That sounds very do-able. And I appreciate the YouTube links. Seeing/hearing always helps. |
Don Crandall
Senior Member
Username: Mr_c
Post Number: 124
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2008 - 08:06 pm: | |
Oh Man,
Don't ever say that you will be able to play them (Bach suites)in time. Some of them are monstrosly hard, but some aren't. They all require you to kick it up a few notches however. Keep plugging away. |
Carolyn
Senior Member
Username: Jczaryap
Post Number: 1072
Registered: 11-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 07, 2008 - 04:36 am: | |
Very dry, but I guess somewhat effective are the ABRSM Scales and Arpeggio's. It's published in 2 volumes. Volume 1 Grades 1-5' and Volume 2 Grades 6-8. It's a very structured system, and all the fingering is there. It requires you to play the scales with separate bowing and with slurred bowing. As it progresses to the higher grades, double stop scales among other stuff is added.
...and of course Wolfahrt is always highly recommended.
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Anne W.
Advanced Member
Username: Anne_w
Post Number: 79
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 01:26 pm: | |
I've been looking for something new to use for warm-ups besides Wohlfahrt Books I & II, not that I even come close to being able to play all of them. I play viola, by the way.
I'm intrigued by the idea of playing Bach's cello suites, as suggested by Don. There are two Schirmer editions for viola, one edited by Svecenski and the other by Lifschey. Any preferences out there from those of you in the know???
Oh yes, I'm at the end of Suzuki Volume 4 but far from having it all under control. So I guess I should be asking, are the Bach cello suites going to be too difficult for my ability level???? |
Man
Senior Member
Username: Manwong
Post Number: 1094
Registered: 07-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 03:10 pm: | |
Anne,
You're waaaay ahead of me, *BUT* did you realize you already learned one piece from the Bach Cello Suites since you're in Book 4? Namely, the last piece in Book 3 (Bach Bouree) *is* part of the Bach Cello Suites. And if you can play that fairly well, then you probably can consider working on various other pieces in the Suites. I would recommend discussing it w/ your teacher to find out more.
_Man_
Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".
|
Anne W.
Advanced Member
Username: Anne_w
Post Number: 80
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 04:24 pm: | |
Man, thanks for the information. Yes, I am able to play the Bach Bouree, so that gives me hope for the rest of the Suites. I think I'll go ahead and order the book, but I still don't know which Schirmer edition would be best. One is listed for $9.95 and the other for $12.95. The only difference may be the fingerings, and my teacher usually has her own preferences anyway. |
Don Crandall
Senior Member
Username: Mr_c
Post Number: 161
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 04:57 pm: | |
I use this site http://www.virtualsheetmusic.com/?SSAID=200459
For a yearly subscription price you can download tons of good arrangements. |
Anne W.
Advanced Member
Username: Anne_w
Post Number: 81
Registered: 08-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 07:56 pm: | |
Thanks for the idea, Don. I'll check it out. |
Little Lady
New member
Username: Little_lady
Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 04:03 pm: | |
I agree with Don C. that anything Bach is a good daily exercise. There´s just something about his music that demands a focus on good intonation and fingering not to mention timing.
Although I am not at the level of the solo sonatas and partitas, I have some duet, and quartet arrangements I use for the Brandenburg Concertos as well as the original Concertos in d minor, A min. and E major. You just feel so good when you can come away feeling you have somewhat of a handle on these pieces. |
Don Crandall
Senior Member
Username: Mr_c
Post Number: 170
Registered: 03-2008
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2008 - 05:36 am: | |
Oh no a Handel on Bach! Arrrgh. Touchet! |
Harold Lambert
New member
Username: Haroldleftitaly
Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2009
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, April 14, 2009 - 09:35 am: | |
This scale book is recommended by Levon Ambartsumian ( http://www.ambartsumian.com ) :
http://www.violinvirtuosity.com/store/4 |
