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Jonathan Allen
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Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2008

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Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 10:25 am:   

The Allard, the Laurent, and the Coda Diamond SX bows arrived on Friday, and that evening I was able to give them a go. I still had the JK that came with the Maestro outfit, so I threw it into the mix for comparison. The scientist in me couldn’t resist gathering a bit of data. Here’s what I came up with:

Weight (heaviest to lightest)
JK, Allard, Coda SX, Laurent

Point of Balance (moving toward the frog)
JK, Allard, Laurent, Coda SX

I played the Allard first. It was decent bow, but seemed to fall short of the others. It drew a nice tone, but lacked the clarity I found in the Coda SX and the Laurent. The stick seemed stronger and more responsive than the JK, but not in the same neighborhood as the other two.

I played the Coda next. Worth noting I have never played a synthetic bow before. The concept has always seemed quite odd to me, and I have never given one a chance. Because I am in the mode of leaving my past biases in the past (purchasing a new violin), I figured I should give one fair consideration. The first thing that I noticed is that the SX responds remarkably well. While it outweighs the Laurent, the balance of the bow makes it feel lighter while playing, and it is a very fluid and rewarding bow to play. The stick is very strong, and it draws with great focus. I would describe the tone of the bow as having a relatively flat frequency response with a slight drop in the midrange. In certain ways the tone seems a bit hi-fi. It is easier for me to generate more volume with the Coda SX than the Laurent likely due to the weight.

Finally, I played the Laurent. This is a nice bow. It has very a good response- quick and solid. The stick seems not quite as strong as the SX, but a world apart from the JK and the Allard. The characteristic that really separates the Laurent from the Coda is the tone. The Laurent draws a sound that is amazingly sweet. It is both focused and soft while capable of a great amount of attack. I would say that the tone of this bow is decidedly more round than that of the Coda. The highs seem slightly burnished, the mids carry with a mellow intensity, and the lows come across detailed and focused. There seems quite a bit more nuance in this bow than the Coda, but I struggle generate the same volume- not really an issue for me because I’m not trying to carry over an orchestra.

Right now I am leaning toward the Laurent, but interestingly I keep picking the Coda back up. There is a quality to playing it that is almost effortless. I can’t help but wonder if the MTII wasn’t so new and had opened up a bit, if I wouldn’t end up liking the Coda more. I have a friend coming over on Tuesday to play them a bit and discuss my thoughts. I’ll let you know how it ends up.
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Man
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Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 02:17 pm:   

Thanks for the interesting review, Jonathan. Always great to hear more about these bows. BTW, did you also consider trying the Coda Classic too? Maybe that one might fall right in between the Laurent and the Coda Diamond SX and suit you best, if you're really looking for something in between. Just a guess on my part of course.

Look forward to hearing more...

_Man_

Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".
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Cellopop
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Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 03:56 pm:   

It seems the Codas (as in Laura's case) were always good for that focused tone and decent response for playing scales, etudes that don't require too much tonal variations and such. They definately serve a purpose. However, the pernambuco simply out performs the synthetics when the music needs to be a little more theatrical with delicate nuance.
Thanks for the nice review Jonathan.
I would still try at least 10 more bows from Brazil and Germany (to fall more in the budget). There might be the MT's soulmate you don't want to pass by.
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Jonathan Allen
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Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 04:57 pm:   

I would definately like to try some other bows if for no other reason than to justify the price ofthe Laurent as it does push the amount that I wanted to spend. Unfortunately I am having trouble tracking down a lot of options.
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Cellopop
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Post Number: 2628
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Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 01:46 am:   

You can try Johnson Strings in Mass. They have a large selection of bows. The Arcos Brasil are excellent from personal experience and I've heard good things about the other Brazilian models. (we tried them all, the the Arcos were the best out them for us) We still settled on a german bow.

http://www.johnsonstring.com/catalog/sale_bow.htm

One more thing. The student graduation sale is coming in May. That means 15% off the posted price.
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Cellopop
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Post Number: 2629
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Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 01:54 am:   

I would wait for the sale and click on violin bows. You should try all of the bows in the 1300 range made by jose periera, v. schaefer etc. etc.
OR the bows that are silver mounted by Arcos. They will range from 6 and change to 1150 at sale time. They will send you 3 bows at a time. Keep the best out of 3, send 2 back and ask for 2 more. They may send you another 3 if yo ask nice enough. It took us over a month of some intense auditioning to find the right bow.
Try to hold on the that Laurent too for comparison. I'm betting that is a great deal too, they just didn't have any at the time we were ready. The bows I listed are in siliar price range. Have fun. This could be a long process.
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Don Crandall
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Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 02:47 pm:   

Check out this gentleman http://www.rubinobows.com/
He makes absolutly lovley bow which are reasonably priced. He live about 15 miles from me. I am sure he would ship you a bow to try if you asked.
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Cellopop
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Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 05:03 pm:   

Ahhhhhhhhhh.........to live in Maine. Instrument and bow makers galore. I like the Nathan Slobodkin cello. He's in Bangor or near there. Plenty of fine makers in New England in general. I feel lucky to live in th NE. I really love Maine thought. Hate the black flies everywhere and mosqitos by the lakes, but its great in Sept. and Oct. I want to take a ride to Mass. and visit Johnsons and maybe Reuning and Son. (the latter being quite hoity toity but so what)
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Michelle Anne Cello
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Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008 - 11:49 pm:   

I tried the Laurent when I got my MC cello. I've been playing with the Coda bows for a couple years now. While the Laurent was a beautiful bow, I favored the Codas.

The Laurent seemed to be a bit heavier and less responsive. I also thought that the tone was nicer with my Codas. While both my Codas (the classic and conservatory) are very similar in performance, the Laurent gave me quite a different feel and sound.

I would have liked very much to have heard the differences in sound from a distance with the bows by having someone competent use the bow with my cello. I know that what I hear and what the audience hears is different.

I would not discourage anyone from trying the Laurent. It was a beautifully made stick.

Michelle
I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not sure.
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Jonathan Allen
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Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 10:09 am:   

After playing the Coda, I can definately understand how the Coda would probably work quite well for the cello. As for the violin bows the Coda played effortlessly, but tone and nuance fell short of the Laurent. The Laurent was close in playability although there was a little better balance with the Coda. The tone however really made the difference for me.

I am still comparing the Laurent to other bows. I've played it against 5 bows for sale that I've found locally. It is still the clear cut leader and seems to be developing home field advantage.

I was glad to find out that the Laurent is only $649. Somehow I had gotten it into my head that it was $799. I'm going to compare it to some Brazillian made bows on Friday, and some other bows for sale locally next Tuesday. Should nothing come up during those tests, I will keep the Laurent.
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Cellopop
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Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 12:32 pm:   

When we shopped for an upgrade bow (from the current Coda and the JK) SW didn't have any Laurents available, just the Allard. The Laurent cello bow IS listed at $799 and the Allard at $595.00.
The Allard was crafted nicely, comparable to some more expensive bows and actually drew one of the nicest tones out of almost 30 bows, some being 5 times the price. It just didn't respond nearly as well as many of them, however, bang for the buck, it was a great deal. Our budget just happened to be higher and we found the German bow to be much nicer. At 4 times the price, I would hope so although that's not always the case.
If the Allard fits ones budget and it draws a tone as nice as it did on Laura's MTII, I wouldn't pass up trying the Allard.
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Jonathan Allen
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Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 09:02 am:   

So I must have picked up the price of the Laurent cello bow somewhere instead of the violin bow. I agree with Cellopop and would definately recommend that anyone looking for a new bow should try the Allard. It was a nice bow- just not right for me.

I am very thankful for all of the advice here on the forum. Auditioning more bows has really helped me characterize what I am looking for. Bows as so subjective. I've auditioned a couple of bows locally that other people have really liked, but I thought were dogs.

A couple of more trials and I'll let everyone know.
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Hari Seldon
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Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 05:24 pm:   

I have had similar experiences with Coda and pernambuco bows. For me, the Coda bows tended to be crisper and respond faster, while the wood bows had warmer and more varied tonal colors. Currently, I have both a wood and a carbon fiber bow, and I can choose a bow based on what pieces I'm playing.

I've had the opportunity to try out the Coda Colors, Classic, and Diamond GX. Of the three, my favorite was the GX because it was very clean and articulate. The Classic felt very heavy in my hand while the Colors felt a bit out of control compared to the other bows. Apparently Coda recently introduced the Diamond NX, which is supposed to be the cheapest and best of the Diamond series.

Good luck finding the right bow for you! Another place to try bows is from Shar -- they allow you to try 4 bows at once for $20 (I think this includes shipping).
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Don Crandall
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Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 06:42 am:   

I like Shar they have consistenly good stuff. Their string prices are good too. I try to buy them when they have free shipping or sales.

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Joan
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Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 11:23 am:   

I believe that buying a bow is very personal. Depending on your bowing characteristics (very light, heavy handed, etc), each bow will respond differently. Until you gain a command of your playing, you are not really in a position to select a bow and should rely on advice from your teacher or some other experienced player. Kind of like learning to drive...would a Ford do or do you need a Ferrari?

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TK
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Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 01:09 pm:   

I would also suggest calling Shar and speaking to their bow person about what you are looking for. They will let you trial four bows that will come packaged in a bow case with a return label. You try the bows and when you're ready to send them back you seal them up and stick the label on. It couldn't be any easier.

They sent me bows three times before I bought the one I'm using now. You cannot beat their customer service for mail order.

I also have a JK bow from SW and I still use it alot. It's a really decent bow and you can't fault it for the money.

Try lots and lots of bows. It really is like finding a needle in a haystack matching a bow to your instrument.
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Cellopop
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Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 02:18 pm:   

........also, Johnsons Stringed instruments were very patient and willing to bend the rules a bit. They will send a max of 3 bows, send the 2 back you don't want and they will send 2 more for comparison. I tried about 8-9 bows from them. We did have up to 4 of theirs at one given time, although that is exceeding their limit. Once they realize you have at least a confident "maybe" they will start to work with trial time and amounts of bows. We had one for almost a month before we decided to keep it.
Between them and Shar, that would be a great start.
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Jonathan Allen
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Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:45 am:   

I have a few bows from them right now that I am trying, but here has been a delay in my process. My former techer who I am friends with played the MT II. He thought it would end up being a very nice instrument and thought that one of his current students should consider it, but he simply felt that it wasn't right for me. His point was that while the MT II has a wonderful tone and great potential, my concept of ideal tone is inherently tied to a more powerful instrument. He pointed out how I was overplaying the MT II trying to drive it. It's amazing how you can miss something like that, but when someone else points it out it is so obvious. Anyway I talked to Erik and we decided that I should try out the Claudiu. It should get here next week. We'll see what happens then.
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Cellopop
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Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 02:00 pm:   

Yea! You GO boyeeeeeeee.
Hope you like it.
The MYII's ARE known for having a sweet voice and less oomph.
Best of luck with the Claudio.
The Bartok is supposed to have a strong voice too, and a little easier on the budget.
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Don Crandall
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Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 03:18 am:   

Hi JA

Go here http://www.meyerviolins.com and check with David if "Michael" is still available. I tried that instrument and it was more powerful than I wanted. If I had it I would use earplugs while playing.

However, it may be just the instrument you are looking for.

It is a pleasant, but ardous search to find the right violin. Good luck.
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Cellopop
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Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 04:12 am:   

Don.

Meyer's website is laid out very nicely.
Living in Maine, have you been to any other makers studios such as Jonathan Cooper or Nathan Slobodkin? I know Me. is a large state, just curious.

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Don Crandall
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Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 06:23 am:   

I tried a Cooper, a colleague in the symphony has a del Gesu copy he made. He makes a very nice violin. I also like the Instruments that Justin Boone makes. You can check his instruments out at Frost Gully Violins in Freeport, Me. He attended the violin school in Cremona. He is talented as well. I have not met or seen Mr. Slobodkin's cellos, though I have heard of them.

When I went to visit David and he handed me Liesette it just did it. She is my red violin I knew it the minute I played her. I know that is subjective, however, the skillful workmanship, the quality of materials, and the velvety rich sound just won me over.

I am lucky to be surrounded by violin and bow makers.

You should make an appt and go see Mr. Slobodkin. He would probably love to chat with a player. Luthiers are always looking for feedback from potential customers. I think that Reuning in Boston sells his instruments.
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Cellopop
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Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 11:57 am:   

Actually, when the time comes, I may have Laura meet with him or take her up to Reuning (which would be a lot closer and easier) Reuning has an exclusive with Nathan. Her teacher let her play his Slobodkin, and it is one fine cello. It has a willow back and unflamed ribs, which is a repro of a del gesu. Rare in the cello world. Not as attractive to some aesthetically, buy a wonderful sounding instrument that justifies a top notch bow.
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Cellopop
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Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 11:59 am:   

http://www.reuning.com/instruments/collaborations/slobodkin.html
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Jonathan Allen
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Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 01:23 pm:   

Thanks for all of the info. It is really interesting to ponder because when I describe my ideal sounding violin, the word power rarely comes up. I tend to think darker sounding with a robust upper midrange harmonic and a tight bass response. So whenever I talk to people about what I want I tend to end up with less powerful instruments as candidates because the conversation is more centered around tone. Actually I would still say that I find the tonal character far more important than power. However as my friend pointed out when I play instruments I always seem to like the more powerful ones so long as they are not overly bright. I don't seem to hear the power as volume, but rather harmonic intensity.

Anyway the Claudiu should be here next week. I was really lucky because two instruments had just arrived at SW. They were both reviewed by Edmund, and both reviews were very interesting to consider. I think that they both sound like very nice instruments, but ultimately I chose to have them send me the darker sounding of the two. I will keep you posted.
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Don Crandall
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Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 02:44 pm:   

Keep trying instruments JA until you find your "red violin." It is out there floating around. Who knows it may even find you.

I do know that you should never buy any instrument that you don't like on the proviso that "it will get better." If the sound you want is not there from the beginning it likely won't be there later either. If the sound is there then it is likely to improve with age.
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Jonathan Allen
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Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 07:53 am:   

That's good advice, and I appreciate it. I'm really in the position of trying to find something I really like and not necessarily my perfect instrument because I did find that one once. Like a fool I made the 'rational' decision that I could not afford it. Worst decision I ever made. It has been long enought that I sometimes wonder if it was really that perfect. Deep down I know that it was.
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Don Crandall
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Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 05:05 am:   

I hear you JA it makes you question what the real cost of an instrument it. I found the perfect bow (David Forbes FL) for me about 6 years ago, but I did not get it as the $4500.00 price tag scared me away. I have kicked myself ever since.

I am still looking for a good replacement for it, and will find one eventually. At Frost Gully in Freeport they have a verified Pecatte for sale, but the $20,000.00 price tag is prohibative. I did try it though and it is a marvelous stick.
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Jonathan Allen
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Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 08:14 am:   

If I were to ever run into that violin again, I would mortgage my house, but it is long gone. Anyway I am really excited about trying out the Claudiu. Everything I have tried from Stringworks has seemed to be quite a value for the price. The description of the instrument sounds great. It should be here in a few days.
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Don Crandall
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Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 09:58 am:   

My teacher shared with me that her Grancino was stolen years ago. Though she has a lovely instrument now, she never forgot about it. It raises the issue also that when you buy a better instrument be sure to cover it adequately on your home owners or musical instrument policy. Heaven forbid that it is stolen, lost, or damaged beyond repain in some horrible accident. You want to be able to have some funds to replace it. I sent my agent a copy of the appraisals of my instruments and increased coverage appropriately. It is a good practice to review how much coverage you have on your home owners policy annually anyway as we all acquire things of value through the years. If you have a fine instrument you may also want to review it for any appreciation as well. If a maker's instruments have increased in value then you will want to up your coverage as well.

Regrettably the money will not replace the instrument, but at least will give you a new beginning should the unthinkable happen.
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Cellopop
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Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 01:51 pm:   

Ya know Don? Thanks for reminding me. I should really get Laura's cello and new bow insured. Kids can be wreckless.
I've been procrastinating.
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Jonathan Allen
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Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 08:47 am:   

I finally ended the bow search. Actually I ended up with two. After sending the MTII back in favor of the Claudiu, I tried a number of Brazillian and German bows. In the end I liked a Bow by a maker named Azevedo the best. I don't know which outfit he is with. The stick is very strong, but quite light at 59 g. It is stiff yet responsive with a very clean tone. The extra volume that the Claudiu generates easily offsets the loss from playing with a lighter bow.

In the end however I couldn't quit thinking about how much I liked the way the Coda felt. I went by a local shop and played another and had the same result. Played great, but I didn't like the way it sounded. I poked around on the net and read a number of reviews about how the Diamond GX sounded better that the Diamond SX. I really thought that there wouldn't be much difference, but the GX definately has a warmer rounder sound.

Since I travel quite a bit, I decided to keep the GX. I thought that it might deal better with the climate changes that a wood bow. Likewise I choose to play it over the Azevedo for certain things as its response is faster.

All in all I am glad that I tried as many bows as I did. The search didn't really lead to a perfect bow, but confirmed my suspicion that I'll probably end up with another quiver over the years.
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Don Crandall
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Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 05:14 pm:   

We never stop looking. I have 10 bows in my study.
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Spyros Tsimboulis
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Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 11:56 pm:   

Congratulations for your new violin-bow.I hope yoy enjoy them.What about the Laurent in comparison to the other bows?
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Jonathan Allen
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Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 11:12 am:   

The Laurent was the best combination of tone and playability of the wooden bows that I tried under $1,000. It was very nice, but I liked the Perierra and the Azevedo bows better (at twice the price of course).
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Cellopop
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Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 12:13 pm:   

Perierra is a good maker. We tried one in gold that was very nice at 2700 bucks (now around 3000) but liked the German made Dolling's bang for the buck at 2200. I notice that most bows in the 1500-2500 dollar range recently went up 3-400 in price. I'm guessing the weakness in the dollar although an American made just went from 3600 to 4000 at Johnsons, so the dollar argument may not hold water.
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Cellopop
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Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 12:17 pm:   

M. Perierra is a speciealty maker at Arcos Brasil (which was my favorite company in the Brazilians, at least with the MTII). I think, but am not sure, that Azevedo may be with Water Violet.
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Man
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Registered: 07-2006

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Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 05:33 pm:   

RE: the Coda bows, Jonathan, did you try the Coda Classic also?

I recently picked up a lightly used Coda Classic (finally for the violin) off eBay for a serious bargain price (~$350), and it is indeed a good bit different from the Coda Conservatory I have (and generally plays much more like a wood bow, but w/out the usual problems w/ wood). I really hadn't expected such a difference either, and I'm really glad I got it at such a great price.

_Man_

Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".
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Jonathan Allen
Junior Member
Username: Captainboog

Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2008

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Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 08:55 am:   

I didn't get a chance to try the Coda Classic. I like the Diamond GX enought that if I came across a cheap used Classic, I'd probably give it a try as well. There was a difference in the way the SX and the GX played, but not seemingly as large as the difference you describe between the Conservatory and the Classic. My wife is taking up the Cello, and I am getting her a Conservatory.

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